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Schlage Primus bump keys - possible?


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#1 PhreeX

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 04:28 AM

I am not even sure what machine would make the cuts for the key, but it seems like the same principle would apply - apply the kinetic energy and you not only get the top pins, but the lower side pins to 'jump' and you are in....

I have been staring at my key for an hour trying to figure it out (I just moved into a new condo and had to install a deadbolt, it was a choice between Mul-T-Lock, Medeco, or the Schlage Primus - I opted for the later) ..

Is it possible or waste of time .... hell, to even get a copy of the key I have to send a copy of my card (that came with the lock) to New Mexico to Schlage's main facility as it seems no one has the machine to make the side cuts ...

Anyone?
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#2 Customer Support

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Posted 25 January 2008 - 02:53 AM

First my disclaimer: we haven't started selling this type of high security lock, thus i'm not that familiar with it.

That being said -- I'd say don't waste your time trying to bump this lock as it will give you a MAJOR head ache. The few times we've 'played' with the Primus resulted in un-successful bumping attempts. It appeared to us that finger pins ( along the side of the keyway) were the ones causing the problems.

Have a look on the Schlage Primus website for their manuals \ diagrams for the best explanation possible.

James K. - Lead Support
For Order specific questions please use the 'contact us' link at the top of our store.


#3 theopratr

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Posted 25 January 2008 - 07:26 PM

The Schlage Primus series is their top of the line system, which employs a sidebar, thus making bumping impossible - and, as you mentioned, the keys are controlled.

The Everest series, also by Schlage, has a mildly similar system, but the side of the blade is the same for each Everest series. Thus, with a properly made set of keys, the Everest series is bumpable. I remember Peterson selling a set not too long ago, but you're not going to get anything from them unless you're government/police.

#4 PhreeX

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 08:57 PM

I just got a look at Schlage "Everest" type keys and that is the type of key I am thinking of - I thought the second layer of cuts was for a second set of pins and not a sidebar (ala medeco) .. I couldn't find an illustrated diagram that shows a blue-print of the "Primus" or "Everest" locks .. I guess I simply pictures a second set of pins angled down but in at an angle ... I mean, it is either possible to use the "bumping" technique (applying kinetic energy via a blow to a key, cut so that it will strike each pin so they clear the sheer line. At the same time applying slight torque so the cylinder plug turns.) - but if there are other systems in place to prevent that simple technique from allowing you to open the lock, well, the answer is simply "no, you can't make a bump-key for an Everest or Primus lock (I asked about Primus as that is the type of key I thought I was talking about, but more to the point, the lock I have in question is stamped with "Primus" on the face of the lock)

From my reading, using a Primus key that has been properly cut for the purpose, you can pick the locks in the same way as you can any other pin-tumbler ..

Anyway, I think it is safe to confirm that Schlage 'Primus' & Everest, Medeco, and Mul-T-Lock Locks, while you can compromise them, it is not as easy as using a bump-key and getting in with one, quick tap of the key and a flick of the wrist. Of course the notable exception being the discovery that you can use one, from a set of around a dozen 'bump-keys', each with the bitting at various angles to make up for the off-set cuts implements of Medeco. But with the exact measurements for the off-sets having not been made public, and given to cut the full-set set the dozen+ keys would require the rather expensive blanks, and if I am not mistaken, a special cutting machine.. well, it just makes it rather impractical to add Medeco to the list of locks you can bump.. but hey, PROVE ME WRONG GUYS!

Peace!
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#5 theopratr

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Posted 04 February 2008 - 07:09 PM

Schlage Everest (conventional) locks may be bumped. Due to the presence of a sidebar, Schlage Primus locks may not be bumped.

Primus Diagram

Proof that Everest keys exist:

#28-30 Everest Bump Keys

#6 lostwithoutabeat

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 07:25 PM

theopratr that link for the Everest keys seems to be down, is there another image somewhere? I can't find one on google

#7 theopratr

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Posted 12 February 2008 - 09:07 AM

There is only one company which sells Everest bump keys, and they only sell to police and government... normal locksmiths aren't even eligible.

An Everest bump key looks exactly like a regular SC1, except cut on to an Everest blank.

#8 PhreeX

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 03:21 AM

There is only one company which sells Everest bump keys, and they only sell to police and government... normal locksmiths aren't even eligible.

An Everest bump key looks exactly like a regular SC1, except cut on to an Everest blank.

]
You can buy the Everest key blanks and you could then use either a code cutting a ma1chine to make an original, or simply use an SC1 bump-key to make a copy... the question is the bottom row of cuts - do ALL the everest keys have the SAME bottom row of cut or are they different? as far as I know you don't need any license to buy an everest key blank ..

The locksmith I was working for as an apprentice had some of the everest key blanks, but if I recall, there were about 20 type of blanks (each had different cuts on the bottom row ..)

//p

#9 WOT

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 03:09 AM

I wouldn't do it on YOUR door as bumping is bad for the lock.

Ok, so say your car redlines at 30mph in 1st gear. If you go 30, then pop the clutch and let the engine jump to red line, it probably won't break it. Do it every Do it every time you stop and bad things will happen.

Do it on a lock you're not using.

#10 MrLocks

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 04:03 AM

Schlage Everest (conventional) locks may be bumped. Due to the presence of a sidebar, Schlage Primus locks may not be bumped.

Primus Diagram

Proof that Everest keys exist:

#28-30 Everest Bump Keys

I agree, You can bump Schlage Everest locks without any problem but Schlage Primus locks may not be bumped easily.
Sandy