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Are these two concept fessible?


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#1 stevenlau2006

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 05:59 AM

No. 1
use 3 pins in each hole
Posted Image

no. 2
upper pins change to magnet
and
lower pins change to mild steel
Posted Image

are they can prevent bump key? :bow:

#2 theopratr

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 10:26 AM

No. 1: It won't prevent bumping simply because the concept works the same, but the key would just need to be cut lower.

No. 2: Not sure. It's worth an experimental model, I believe, but I think you could run into some problems with corrosion and the normal functioning of the lock. Plus, if the impulse force on the pin stack is high enough, the magnetic force wouldn't matter.

#3 bentpick

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 01:07 PM

Regarding scenario #1: As illustrated, the original key wouldn't work because the middle pins are blocking the shear line (look at your illustration). It really doesn't matter how many pins you have, the top pin will always 'bump away' from the shear line :confused: .
Bump on!!!!

#4 stevenlau2006

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 11:21 PM

actually
these two are the ideas i fonud from the internet :rolleyes:
how about no.2
is it fessible? :bow:

#5 theopratr

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 12:02 AM

The magnet idea sounds good, except that 1.) magnets tend to lose their magnetic properties due to heat and time, unless you're using a magnet that is rather expensive. No commercial pins are produced using magnetic material at this time, as most magnet locks simply use a magnetic key... thus fabrication costs would be quite high. also, 2.) If the magnets are powerful enough to prevent bumping, it would also make opening the lock rather difficult. A magnet powerful enough to prevent a very vigorous bump would essentially prevent the lock from being opened. Additionally, it would make "picking" quite easy... an external magnetic field applied to the lock in the vertical direction would allow the plug to be turned with a screwdriver. (Or simply a NIB magnet applied to the face of lock, applying tension to the plug, and spinning the external magnet 360 degrees...)

#6 BLK

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 05:09 AM

http://www.bumpkeyfo...p=7498#post7498

I believe this previous thread may have some bearing here, especially the last post of the thread.

I only used 1 KwikSet lock due to time restraints. In theory it would work the same way with Schlage, Yale, Corbin, etc. or any other simple, low security, pin tumbler lock.

Magnets would be cost prohibitive to produce and therefore would not market to a wide customer base due to how expensive the finished product would be.

It seems that at least 2 pin stacks would have to have magnets that were installed with opposite polarity to prevent the compromise that Theo mentioned...just a thought.

I bump master pinned locks regularly. They usually take at least 2 or 3 attempts but they open easily with bumping. The previous thread mentioned above was an attempt to make a lock bump proof by going outside the "rules" of properly pinning a lock. I used multiple bottom pins in the stacks instead of using standard 'master waffers'. The pin chambers were over filled and the lock still bumped. That thread also called into question Newton's Craddle theory. Bumping just did not work that way on that lock. But like I said earlier, I only did one lock due to time available for playing with this concept (I have to work to make money to buy ammo for my new locksmithing tool :biggrin: ).

Take a close look at that old thread. Try crazy pin combonations. Try to make a lock "un-bumpable". You could discover something that could make you a lot of money.
Bump it to the next level.

#7 theopratr

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 06:55 PM

I did some basic experimentation with using magnetic pins, and found that most anything that even begins to screw around with magnets can be easily compromised by using an electromagnet with oscillating polarity and a boat load of power going through it. I machined the pins myself, and it took a lot of time to do with rather primitive tools... additionally, in making the pins, I kept having the problem of my second rate magnets losing their magnetism due to the heat involved in machining them from existing materials. A company may be able to pull it off, but an individual would have a hard time indeed.

#8 MrLocks

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 11:38 PM

According to me I think no2 will work good to prevent bumping because while hitting with hammer pins wont move up due to force.
Sandy