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Italian F3


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#1 yattiaman

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 02:25 PM

Hi everybody, firstly let me tell you I have been reading this forum and other internet stuff on bumping for the last almost 24 hours, and I want be able to create and use bump keys, it's amazing, completely new for me, I had never heard about it before! Today/yesterday, after reading some things about snapper picks, I followed the instructions on a web-site, I think it's lockpick 101 or something similar. I made my own snapper pick and I tried on my house front door...it simply did not work, or better I did not know how to use it. Then I took my house key and I tried to modify it filing according to the instructions I found on the web to make a 9999. The key was stuck in the lock and I broke it almost voluntarily to remove it. I bought a new door lock, and another one for my personal experiments. The new one is a F3 (or at least it's written on it on the front and on the back close to the lock), which I believe has 5 pins. I made a bumb key out of one of the 3 copies, but after almost 10 hours keeping trying nothing happens...and I've seen tons of videos on internet...The question of the post is: does anyone of you know Italian/European (not British, the web is full of it) keys/locks? Do you know for instance this F3 type and how to bump it? I ordered a snapper gun and a set of bump keys, those on http://www.mybumpkey...m/Home_Page.php, and I hope they are suitable for Italian locks...there's plenty of stuff for US and UK keys on the web, something about German ones, but I read nothing about Italian ones. Just for info: bump keys are not illegal here, but the locksmiths I visited today do not know neither what a 999 is, nor a bump key (probably I cannot find the right Italian name), and other ones said they cannot create a 999 or 99999 without an original model (?!?!). So I made my own one, but it seems useless. The tip has been filed, as well as the shoulder, the key enters the lock, makes a click and then it moves a bit back (and it's ok, I think) but with hammer and screwdriver bumping the key nothing happens...Are there other common Italian lock/keys you know or suggest to start with (I know only CISA and maybe YALE)? Is a snap gun a better choice? Can anyone of you send me bump keys for Italian locks via paypal (it's completely legal here)?I do not know other websites where I can find the bump keys I need for local locks...:brickwall:
Thanks!

#2 yattiaman

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 10:38 PM

Seriously, I am still in front of my pc and after 2 days reading and 5 hours sleeping I can't give up, I want to find bump keys in Italy and for Italian keys, but nothing about it on the web...what about you? Really no clue? My first and probably last bump key was a complete failure, in the last hours I filed a little bit more, but nothing changes, the key still clicks when inserted into the lock, but hammer or not, it does open nothing...I think I have to start with some ready made bump keys, but no way to find them here...and no way to get them from the States, producers only ship to US...and they prepare mostly UK or US keys sets. What can I do? Strange situation: bump keys are legal here, there is no law at all concerning them, they virtually do not exist, since nobody knows them, not even locksmiths (it seems to me), but I cannot get one!:confused: Any suggestions? Does anyone of you know European common types ? And what about the F3 issue? It seems bump proof! I can be really noob and awkward, but it's almost 24 hours I try on the same lock and there is no solution, it opens only with its real keys...F3 is written on both (both applies also for 3 items?) package, key and lock. Please, do not ignore me...

Bye all and probably have a good night at this time...!

p.s.: does anyone of you think that locks here can be more complicated than in the US? I have no idea.

#3 bentpick

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 12:10 AM

Hi, Post a picture of the original key plus your bumpkey one under the other...we can then try to asses the quality of the bump key. Also, try taking your F3 lock apart to check out the inside...is it a simple 5 pin tumbler lock, or is it a more complicated lock than you think? If possible post a pic of the lock.

Prior to taking the lock apart, make sure you understand how to dismantle it...maybe a web search about the lock.

If its a typical pin tumbler lock, you will absolutely be able to eventually bump it.

Just a note: Using too much tension or pressure to turn the key is one of the major reasons people can't bump...also, a moderate tap on the key is more than enough force with the bump hammer. Some locks only bump in one direction as well.:smile:
Bump on!!!!

#4 ArchsageVal

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 09:50 PM

EPL makes Italian bump keys, very high quality.

#5 yattiaman

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 04:51 PM

Hi, thanks for the suggestions. From tomorrow I am ready to start again with my attempts...now I upload the image of the comparison original vs. bump key, tell me about your impression, probably I've made mistakes.
Just another question: EPL? I cannot find a related url...can u link it please?

Bye!

Attached Files



#6 bentpick

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 07:59 PM

The original key appears to be 4 pin...the bump key has 5 valleys instead of 4....each valley should correspond to the valleys on the original exactly. Also, the peaks should be smaller and less steep...about 50% smaller and decrease the angle by about 30 degrees. Good luck :smile: .
Bump on!!!!

#7 yattiaman

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 05:44 AM

The original key has 4 pins, but the lock has 5, so I thought I had to reproduce exactly the amount of the lock pins. Suppose I have a 5 pins lock and a corresponding bump key, I think it would be also a 5 pin key, am I right? Therefore I thought it was better to make 5 valleys, but now I will try making only 4. I was sure that the fifth one had to be made as well to bump on the related pin, but I am not sure about this theory, I don't know its mechanics exactly. Actually, placing the key close to the lock on the bottom side, where the inps are indicated on its hull, the central pin corresponds to the central peak of the key, so I understand your objection, but I have doubts about the general practice: if you have a bump key and a lock, usually you do not know how many pins the lock has, do you? Tell me more, I am still curious. TX

#8 theopratr

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 03:51 PM

You do need a five pin key... if you look at the separation, the third pin is just very high, and isn't expressed as a groove. Thus, you are correct in making a five pin key.

#9 yattiaman

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 09:26 PM

Dear ArchsageVal, I need your help, I find EPL on google only in a wide variety of other fields, but no way to find a site with EPL + bump keys, neither Italian, nor rest of the world...can you sugeest me something? I know it might sound boring for you, but I cannot progress otherwise. TXXX

#10 ArchsageVal

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 10:59 AM

Dear ArchsageVal, I need your help, I find EPL on google only in a wide variety of other fields, but no way to find a site with EPL + bump keys, neither Italian, nor rest of the world...can you sugeest me something? I know it might sound boring for you, but I cannot progress otherwise. TXXX



It's a shop in Italy, (the website needs a username and password) but I'll try to get their phone number for ya.