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What Type of Key is This?


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#1 Foxcraft

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 12:43 PM

What Type of Key is this? Before you go out and say a "Russwin" please read on.

DESCRIPTION:
It says "Russwin" on the key, with a backwords C on the end of the "Russwin" going to the R. Six cuts. NO other markings.

Now if you say it's a Corbin Russwin key, all the Corbin Russwin I've seen say ILCO, and this one does not.

And if it's a Corbin Russwin, what type? RU46, RU1, etc?

#2 theopratr

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 12:58 PM

Without a picture, there's not much that anyone can say. My money is obviously on some Russwin keyway, as it is marked as such. ILCO is generally the distributor of key blanks... I have keys marked ILCO for just about every brand, so it really means nothing. Post a picture and we can conclusively identify it.

#3 Foxcraft

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 01:21 PM

OK here is the best picture I could get. Top says RUSSWIN. From the little I know, looks like a 6 pin lock? From this specific key, how difficult would it be to make a bump key out of it by using a file? And what code key is it? RU46?

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#4 theopratr

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 03:52 PM

If that is not a safe key, it's of the 1011K(X) series. It could also be a 1011PH, but I doubt it. I think the PH is a five pin. If it is a safe key, it's within the A1011-(XX)N. Clear pictures of both sides and a profile (looking down the body of the key) could help for a specific identification. Either way, this key is not a common occurance. What does it go to?

The numbers given above eliminate more than 80% of all Russwin keyways, and every single commonly used Russwin/Corbin keyway. The ranges given are ILCO reference numbers for the blanks, where the (X) stands for some numerical value. The 1011K series has 13 entries, the PH stands alone, and the A1011-XXN series has 14 entries, plus a master. So... it's down to 29 possible blanks, but you'd have a hard time getting your hands on any of them unless you bought them online. Checking with my local locksmith, he doesn't have any of them, except the safe master and the PH.

You could, in theory, make a bump key out of it, but considering how uncommon the blank is, you'd be hard pressed to get another key made if you fouled it up.

#5 Foxcraft

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 07:46 PM

It's a work key. Not a safe key.

I'm bad at making pictures, and tried before making one of the bottom but had a difficult time. The other side is blank, but numbers stamped individual according to what door it opens on what floor. I have a bunch of keys from different dept. doors I've worked at (man not used so I have a few to play with).

And if I'm right, to count the pins, you count the grooves on the key right? If so then I think it's six pins as of looking at them all I see six "valleys or grooves" between them all that stand out. Then again I'm no expert but it looks so.

Do you think it's a RU46?

I'm assuming in them, put them all together lineup them side by side and cut the deepest where on them?

#6 theopratr

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 07:58 PM

You are correct in saying that it's a six pin. It is most certainly not, however, an RU46. When I stated that I needed to see the other side of the key, it was to look at the grooves to denote which keyway it was. The spacing and separation of those suckers is important!

This being said, that narrows it down to the 1011K(X) series. The 1011PH generally has a different shaped head, but I suppose it's not out of the question.

If you're just getting into bumping, I'd probably not recommend starting with a Russwin... for the reason that you're having some difficulty now. The keyways are highly variable, with over one hundred in use. Start with the $5 Kwikset replacement rim cylinder from Home Depot, buy a key for it, get used to that and then practice making your own keys. Once you're proficient, you could them successfully make your own key for that weirdo keyway you have.

As for information on how to make your own keys, etc., look it up on the forums using the search tool. We have plenty of information available to you, and hopefully a lot of your questions will have already been answered there.

#7 theopratr

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 11:57 PM

After a little more research, for the sake of reference, it's definitely in the A1011-XXN line. From the blurry photo, I would say that it's probably an A1011-1N, but could also be an A1011-10N. The first possibility is equivalent to an RU31, and the second is an RU40. Neither one of these guys are common keys, although certainly not impossible to get a hold of. I found both available online, but the only places that sell them do so in 50 key lots.

#8 BLK

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Posted 17 April 2007 - 08:22 AM

This key looks like the one to the safe at the United Men of Corkball's treasury room...:eek:

It also looks like an RU46 although I would have to see the other side of the bow to be sure...:biggrin:
Bump it to the next level.

#9 Foxcraft

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 11:14 AM

OK, here is Side Two. And based on that, (and I could be totally wrong), is it an RU46 or is it the RU46, RU45, RU4, RU1, RU18, RU19?

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#10 Foxcraft

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 11:19 AM

Here is a different key. Same Russwin type. Now based on this and the little I know. Could not one just follow those "valleys" and file them all the way down to the lowest (first notch)? Both Sides Shown.

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#11 Foxcraft

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 11:25 AM

TheOpratr:
I did a search and could not come up with a RU31 or RU40 anywhere? And just for the fun of it I called a local locksmith and asked if they had a blank and the guy said he's never heard of either? Did you make a typo perhaps?

#12 Foxcraft

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 11:41 AM

My mistake. I called a regular locksmith (not one inside a garden store) and was told they can order the given keys but in large lots (as you said) as it's not common. Can you provide a link that provides a side that sells the RU 31 or RU40 as you stated? Or why won't a RU46 work?

Lastly, what about the idea I said about filing one down as I posted previously?

#13 Foxcraft

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 01:10 PM

I found this pic online (searching for Russwin key bump) and although I could well be wrong, it looks a lot like my key and is listed as an RU46. The top hole and border around the key looks alike. Wadda ya think?

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#14 BLK

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 01:41 PM

I found this pic online (searching for Russwin key bump) and although I could well be wrong, it looks a lot like my key and is listed as an RU46. The top hole and border around the key looks alike. Wadda ya think?

Posted Image


The millings on the sides of the blank do not match up at all so RU46 will not even fit in the lock you have.
Bump it to the next level.

#15 theopratr

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Posted 18 April 2007 - 02:22 PM

As BLK states, the key simply won't fit into the lock. There are hundreds of different keyways that look exactly like the RU46 pic that you took off of hereherehereherehereherehereherehereherehereherehere.com, but ONLY the RU31 is going to fit the lock in question. There is no master key for that series of keyway either, so only that key will do it. (My RU46, RU45, RU16, RU4, RU1, etc. all look exactly like that one, but that's just because they're the same brand of key.)

You could try to file it down, but Russwins are not cheap locks. Your chances of sucess never having done this before are rather minimal. Additionally, it's a six pin lock, which makes it more difficult for the amateur to bump anyway. I wouldn't risk ruining the change key to attempt to make a bump key out of it.

#16 BLK

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 07:26 AM

Either Ilco blank A1012-60 or an A1012-59A seems to be the best match. BUT, that would mean that it is a part of a seriously mastered system....what did you say this key goes to? I know that you have read enough on this Forum to know that if you do not own the lock you are trying to bump, you could get into some serious do-do with the LEOs and win a trip to a place with lots of locked doors AND Big Tyrone will teach you the finer points of prison love.
Bump it to the next level.

#17 theopratr

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 08:52 AM

Tyrone's love is neither gentle nor kind... :eek:

#18 BLK

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 11:28 AM

Tyrone's love is neither gentle nor kind... :eek:


Brutal...of course, some folk like it rough...:eek:
Bump it to the next level.

#19 Foxcraft

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 11:34 AM

The keys to work. Trust me when I say there's nothing remotely worth while (lots of papers, ink and newspapers.....yes a printer) of being worth while to resell. Although we have lotsa doors with these different keys, I tried once with a totally wrong key (almost got stuck in the lock and I had to use pliers to get it out), my supervisor was pretty cool and asked what I was doing. I said it and he said "huh, if you get it to work let me know" then walked away.

BLK, those two ILCOS you listed, all I can find for ILCO are the ILCO IN3 and 33. Or are those the equal?

Where can an RU31 be purchased in the 999 (lowest setting)?

#20 Foxcraft

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Posted 19 April 2007 - 11:47 AM

The keys to work. Trust me when I say there's nothing remotely worth while (lots of papers, ink and newspapers.....yes a printer) of being worth while to resell. Although we have lotsa doors with these different keys, I tried once with a totally wrong key (almost got stuck in the lock and I had to use pliers to get it out), my supervisor was pretty cool and asked what I was doing. I said it and he said "huh, if you get it to work let me know" then walked away. Perhaps because I'm disabled (use a wheelchair to get around (I guess because something like this that a majority of the public cannot do seems interesting to me, or perhaps because I'm a bit perverted ;-) ). Like a twisted hobby.

BLK, those two ILCOS you listed, all I can find for ILCO are the ILCO IN3 and 33. Or are those the equal?

Where can an RU31 be purchased in the 999 (lowest setting)?

Lastly, correct me if I'm wrong all one has to be able to do is have the key filed or cut down to the lowest settings? I doubt a locksmith would, but in a few seconds their machine could cut one down to the lowest settings? Or if you have a key with at least one notch at the lowest and all the others cut at least a bit, then file all the rest down? NOt easy, but possible in theory? Throughout the years I've kept old ones so I think I have about a dozen or so with differnet levels.