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does key need to be modified for pullout method


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#1 bumpkin

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 07:08 PM

I bought some bump keys on ebay and noticed that the first cut (the one that enters the keyway first) is bigger. I'm not talking about the actual depth of the cut but the size of the triangle that is formed on the top of the key. With the first triangle being larger than the rest, the distance from the start of the first ramp (which is the first thing to touch the pins) to the second ramp is larger than the other ramp to ramp distances. Therefore the bump key will not work with the pullout method. This is correct isn't it? It must be because the first ramp is hitting a pin before the other ones are.

#2 Customer Support

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 07:22 PM

If you have a picture that would help TREMENDOUSLY ...

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#3 bumpkin

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 08:02 PM

How do I add a picture? :?

#4 BLK

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 09:53 PM

I bought some bump keys on fleabay and noticed that the first cut (the one that enters the keyway first) is bigger. I'm not talking about the actual depth of the cut but the size of the triangle that is formed on the top of the key. With the first triangle being larger than the rest, the distance from the start of the first ramp (which is the first thing to touch the pins) to the second ramp is larger than the other ramp to ramp distances. Therefore the bump key will not work with the pullout method. This is correct isn't it? It must be because the first ramp is hitting a pin before the other ones are.


Sounds normal to me. The KW1 will have a higher ridge at the tip of the key, that is normal, it is just the way KW1's are cut. A KW1 should look like this:

http://www.bumpkey.u...ump-key-KW1.jpg

There are other keys that have less height on the tip, but they all work with the pullout method. I only use the pullout method and I cut my own bump keys with a Pak-A-Punch key cutter. My KW1 looks just like the one in the picture referenced above. And I only use the pullout method. And I am very successful bumping locks. And, if I haven't mentioned it, I only use the pullout method with keys that are cut to manufacturer specifications. And they look like the one in the picture referenced above.

I may have repeated myself somewhat. :oops: [/img]
Bump it to the next level.

#5 bumpkin

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Posted 21 December 2006 - 11:10 PM

Sounds normal to me. The KW1 will have a higher ridge at the tip of the key, that is normal, it is just the way KW1's are cut. A KW1 should look like this:

http://www.bumpkey.u...ump-key-KW1.jpg

There are other keys that have less height on the tip, but they all work with the pullout method. I only use the pullout method and I cut my own bump keys with a Pak-A-Punch key cutter. My KW1 looks just like the one in the picture referenced above. And I only use the pullout method. And I am very successful bumping locks. And, if I haven't mentioned it, I only use the pullout method with keys that are cut to manufacturer specifications. And they look like the one in the picture referenced above.

I may have repeated myself somewhat. :oops:




That's interesting, because logically speaking you'd think that it would not work. I believe you of course. I think I read on this forum about a guy who modified his key by cutting down the first ramp so it was the same height as the rest and it worked too, which does not make sense. I guess if it works then that's all that matters.

#6 Customer Support

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 05:30 AM

That's interesting, because logically speaking you'd think that it would not work. I believe you of course. I think I read on this forum about a guy who modified his key by cutting down the first ramp so it was the same height as the rest and it worked too, which does not make sense. I guess if it works then that's all that matters.


The person you're referring to was simply spamming this forum. While he suggests that it works, we have yet to attempt it or had out side confirmation that it works.

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#7 BLK

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 06:07 AM

That's interesting, because logically speaking you'd think that it would not work.


Logic? What logic? It is key specific and KW1, Kw10 and others are just that way and they work.

I believe you of course.


You don't have to believe me. You can experiment with different approaches and discover for yourself what works for you.

I think I read on this forum about a guy who modified his key by cutting down the first ramp so it was the same height as the rest and it worked too, which does not make sense.


I read the same post and looking at the picture of his key it is possible that it might work on some locks. If you will go back and look closely at that key, it has 7 cuts. A KW1 can only have 5 cuts. That's the way the KwikSet gods made KW1 keys. I could see how it might work on some locks that have pinnings that are less than a 5 or 6 cut, but if he tried to bump a lock with a 7 cut he would be hard pressed to get it to work without further modification. Personally, I don't think the guy has a very extensive working knowledge of how locks work nor a working knowledge of how bump keys work. Is he a bad guy, probably not. Does he know locks and bump keys, probably not. Did he make a bump key that does not meet KwikSet specs but still works on at least one lock, yes. Will it work on all KwikSet locks, most likely not.

I guess if it works then that's all that matters.


I won't argue with success. And, I will admit to being pragmatic.

I wish you all the luck (based in accurate information, of course) with your bumping.
Bump it to the next level.

#8 theopratr

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 09:30 AM

I read the same post and looking at the picture of his key it is possible that it might work on some locks. If you will go back and look closely at that key, it has 7 cuts. A KW1 can only have 5 cuts. That's the way the KwikSet gods made KW1 keys. I could see how it might work on some locks that have pinnings that are less than a 5 or 6 cut, but if he tried to bump a lock with a 7 cut he would be hard pressed to get it to work without further modification. Personally, I don't think the guy has a very extensive working knowledge of how locks work nor a working knowledge of how bump keys work. Is he a bad guy, probably not. Does he know locks and bump keys, probably not. Did he make a bump key that does not meet KwikSet specs but still works on at least one lock, yes. Will it work on all KwikSet locks, most likely not.


I believe I'm "that guy" with the KW-1 bump key with seven cuts. Sorry for any confusion I've caused. The way that the original 7-cut KW-1 was made, it had no shoulder on the top or bottom, and an extra cut was made out of the "diamond" on the tip of the key, and also after the last cut where the shoulder normally just sloped up. (5+1+1) But making those two extra cuts, it meant that in a pinch the key could also bump locks made for the KW-10, as the spacings and depths are pretty similar.

That first "diamond" on the key serves the same purpose when using the pull out method as does any other bump on the key, it's just larger, so removing it wouldn't cause an issue in how well your key worked so long as you didn't cut it down too much.

I do have dedicated KW-1 bump keys with five cuts, I'm just proud of my creation, which, I might add, works on just about every Kwikset I've ever run into.

And I don't appreciate being called a spammer, I'm employed in the lock and security industry. :D

#9 Customer Support

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Posted 22 December 2006 - 09:53 AM

And I don't appreciate being called a spammer, I'm employed in the lock and security industry. :D


I wasn't referring to you BTW.. but the other guy that came in here touting his British bump keys... Sorry for the confusion and thanks for explaining your keys :wink:

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#10 ChicagoLocks

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Posted 09 May 2011 - 09:07 AM

Sounds normal to me. The KW1 will have a higher ridge at the tip of the key, that is normal, it is just the way KW1's are cut. A KW1 should look like this:


http://www.bumpkey.u...ump-key-KW1.jpg


There are other keys that have less height on the tip, but they all work with the pullout method. I only use the pullout method and I cut my own bump keys with a Pak-A-Punch key cutter. My KW1 looks just like the one in the picture referenced above. And I only use the pullout method. And I am very successful bumping locks. And, if I haven't mentioned it, I only use the pullout method with keys that are cut to manufacturer specifications. And they look like the one in the picture referenced above.


I may have repeated myself somewhat. :oops: [/img]

I never used pullout method more than few times and if tried never get success, but this description is good and give lots of information about pullout method and key. Thanks
Sandy