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Do bump keys work on vehicles as well?


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#1 Virgintamr

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 07:54 PM

I was curious if anyone has tried using a bump key on a car lock or ignition? I won't pretend to know anything about the different types of locks but I assume they use the same designs. Can it be done or has anyone tried it?

#2 Kristic

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 08:00 PM

I was curious if anyone has tried using a bump key on a car lock or ignition? I won't pretend to know anything about the different types of locks but I assume they use the same designs. Can it be done or has anyone tried it?


No, car keys are double sided

#3 Virgintamr

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 09:12 PM

Wouldn't the same principals work except that it would be twice as hard?

#4 Customer Support

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 09:37 PM

Negative... they use completely different type of pins.

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#5 Kristic

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Posted 03 December 2006 - 10:07 PM

Wouldn't the same principals work except that it would be twice as hard?


You can find some keys called Jiggler keys (also called Tryout Keys). Those do sometimes work on car doors, but usually only on older cars.

#6 theopratr

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 01:48 AM

Negative... they use completely different type of pins.


The vast majority of vehicles use wafer locks, not pins, save Fords, but even then the keys are double sided, which presents a challenge, and the locks on car doors require a ton of tension.

Aside from this, the auto manufactures love to change up the manufacturers and varieties of their locks. Thus, within the same model year different vehicles of the different makes from the same manufacturer may have different locks, and then you have variations for year, and then by manufacturer... even if it did work, a theoretical set of bump keys would weigh more than a small army could effectively carry.

The jigglers are a fantastic solution on most all imports... and the older the better. My Japanese import can be compromised in seconds, door and ignition, but it really depends on the specific make, model and year, and ironically, how it's keyed. With some time, however, you CAN get into most cars. It just may take a while. A generic set of automotive jigglers are available from any reputable lock picking supplier for about $25.

#7 Kristic

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 06:25 AM

[quote name='theopratr][quote=slickj']Negative... they use completely different type of pins.[/quote]

The vast majority of vehicles use wafer locks, not pins, save Fords, but even then the keys are double sided, which presents a challenge, and the locks on car doors require a ton of tension.

Aside from this, the auto manufactures love to change up the manufacturers and varieties of their locks. Thus, within the same model year different vehicles of the different makes from the same manufacturer may have different locks, and then you have variations for year, and then by manufacturer... even if it did work, a theoretical set of bump keys would weigh more than a small army could effectively carry.

The jigglers are a fantastic solution on most all imports... and the older the better. My Japanese import can be compromised in seconds, door and ignition, but it really depends on the specific make, model and year, and ironically, how it's keyed. With some time, however, you CAN get into most cars. It just may take a while. A generic set of automotive jigglers are available from any reputable lock picking supplier for about $25.[/quote]

This is true, but wont we all agree, that a slimjim is the way to go for the most part? Thats what locksmiths use 95% of the time anyway

#8 theopratr

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Posted 04 December 2006 - 07:49 AM

This is true, but wont we all agree, that a slimjim is the way to go for the most part? Thats what locksmiths use 95% of the time anyway


Absolutely. My luck with slimjims has been good, and they work well for locksmiths. I must mention that careful planning is required, for although slimjims are made popular in the hands of criminals, it takes patience, practice and specific knowledge of your target vehicle to get it open.

It's always funny to see the results of a a slimjim brandished by an idiot.

"No, no, no... it's like, I turn the key, and IT goes, but the door doesn't!"

#9 Keyless82

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 02:20 PM

hopefully there will be some keys to open cars soon....

#10 Kristic

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Posted 05 December 2006 - 03:45 PM

hopefully there will be some keys to open cars soon....


I doubt that'll ever happen. More and more cars are getting laser cut keys, which are a b*tch to key copied. With that being said, there will never be a "master" key for them all.

#11 BLK

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 11:06 AM

hopefully there will be some keys to open cars soon....


There are keys to open cars already. They are called "try out" keys. Of course, if "Joe Average" gets caught with a set of them, he/she gets buried under the jail. They are made on very expensive machines with extremely tight specs and are fairly expensive to purchase even if you have the proper credentials and can afford them.
Bump it to the next level.

#12 phoenixzorn

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 04:04 PM

I was discussing this earlier with some friends, and it occurred to me that GM keys from the 60s through the mid-late 90s were all the same blanks for doors... Similarly, the ignition keys for the same years were also identical blanks. They are single sided, round key for the doors, and rectangle keys for the ignitions. As far as I know, this only applies to all GMC and Chevy Trucks, and most Chevy and Pontiac cars from the late-60s to the mid-90s. My 1970 K5 Blazer, 1986 K5 Blazer and my 1994 GMC Yukon all used the same key blank.

As for double sided keys, as long as both sides of a key are cut to the deepest settings, as long as the key isn't magnetic or chipped, it should work just as well as a house key. I would say that most domestics and Asian manufactured vehicles should be able to be opened with a bump key if it was made correctly. In my training to be a locksmith (never finished) I was taught to Impression a key for a customer without having the code or a copy of the key, by inserting the blank in the keyway, and wiggling the key left and right to make marks where the pins are. By trial and error (the point where the tumblers don't make marks anymore) I was able to make keys for many stranded customers. It takes a while, but when you have no other option, you make it work. Now that I look back on it, I'm sure that many of my teacher's car keys were not cut correctly for the individual lock, but rather to "jimmy" the lock to get the real keys out of the ignition...

They weren't tryout keys as far as I know.

#13 phoenixzorn

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 04:51 PM

Sorry to make that post seem so "high and mighty"... I just figure most of the people here are just interested in Bumping, and don't know much about the rest of the locksmithing profession... perhaps I'm wrong, and really, I hope to be proved wrong.

#14 theopratr

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 09:08 PM

The real problem with the majority of automotive locks is the type of lock used; most cars use wafer tumbler locks as opposed to pin tumblers, Ford being an exception. Due to their design, bumping is ineffective for wafer locks. As a result, having a similar blank is irrelevant in that case, because even a properly cut bump key would produce no results. The wafers work differently than pins, not only in shape, but also in mass. The energy transfer from the key to the pins causes a sloppy mess inside of the lock as opposed to an open door.

The GM locks, in particular, are even nastier in that they used a sidebar system. In a normal lock, when bumped, the top pins jump above the shear line and then get stuck on top of the cylinder during the return stroke, effectively opening the lock. With a sidebar system, there is only one wafer, not two pins, and each one of the 5+ wafers in the lock have to be in the exact order specified by the proper key for the lock to even begin to move. Each of the wafers has a groove in it that's the shape of the sidebar, and each wafer supports the sidebar. To open the lock, the sidebar moves down into the grooves, but this requires that all the grooves are in the right place at the right time. Long and the short of it, picking is very difficult, and bumping is impossible.

The old trick to the sidebar is to drill a hole in the lock near the sidebar, and apply pressure to it with some instrument. The downward pressure on the sidebar allows the wafers to get stuck at their appropriate positions, and with some careful picking, the lock will open.

I am not trying to discredit you theory, as I'm sure that there's SOME automotive lock that can be bumped. As convenient as one shared blank would be for such a large range of model years and makes, this one won't work. For all other cars, you have the problem of differing blanks, double sided keys (more pins to catch), etc. All in all, it's probably not worth your time to figure out how to bump autos. Buy a set of try out keys if you must. :)

#15 phoenixzorn

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 10:32 PM

Interesting... thanks for the lesson... I either never learned that, or I forgot... lol... at this point in my life, I'm not entirely sure there's a difference anymore.

#16 theopratr

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 10:47 AM

Interesting... thanks for the lesson... I either never learned that, or I forgot... lol... at this point in my life, I'm not entirely sure there's a difference anymore.


I run into the same feeling almost every day of my life. :)

Fortunately, as complicated as I make the automotive problem sound, wafer locks are generally much easier to straight up pick than pin tumbler systems. If this isn't possible, as is the case with the GM cars (if you don't want to drill a hole in your customer's vehicle), the window seals are horrible on GM cars making it very easy to take a coat hanger to the door lock and open the car manually.

And then there's slim jims... powerful in the hands of the trained, damaging at best in the hands of the untrained. Take from that what you will. I responded to a call of a lock out on campus several months ago to find that the enterprising students decided that they could make an improvised slim jim to open their vehicle. They ripped all of the locking rods off of all of the catches, I had to call in a specialist to fix their car. The cost of labor that they had to pick up exceeded $500. (Each door had to be taken apart to repair the locking mechanisms.)

Their doors, by the way, were easily compromised with jigglers in less than ten seconds. I was pretty confused as to why the jigglers worked just fine, the cylinder turned, etc. but the door didn't open.

#17 phoenixzorn

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 11:29 AM

nice... Sucks for them...


When I was working at I had a customer who locked his keys in his car. Well, to save the guy some money, I fashioned a slim jim out of a piece of brickstrap we had on a pallet of lumber with tin snips, made sure there were no burrs that could scratch the glass and went outside to pop the guy's locks. Took me about 15 seconds, and he was on his way home. Never did that again though, I could have gotten in big trouble from the store... not so much worried about the law.

#18 treelovinhippie

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Posted 05 February 2007 - 05:56 PM

I saw a video where someone got a tennis ball, cut a small hole... put that over the key hole and pushed the ball. So the air pressure would open the pins.

Not sure if it really works though.

#19 Customer Support

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Posted 05 February 2007 - 06:05 PM

I've never seen that before... Did you happen to see what they were using for tension? Perhaps an original key? :roll: :lol:

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#20 BLK

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Posted 05 February 2007 - 08:30 PM

I've never seen that before... Did you happen to see what they were using for tension? Perhaps an original key? :roll: :lol:


I saw it. The lady was using an "original key."

ROTFLMAO

Dang Slickj, you is one funny guy. :lol:
Bump it to the next level.