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so...i'm new...and i'm trying to bump, but can't...typical?


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#1 Journer

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Posted 28 November 2006 - 01:23 AM

well hello all...i am new to the forums and bumping...as well as lock picking in general. i bought myself some ebay bump keys and went to town on my WR5 deadbolt. well, obviously, i couldnt get it to work. i tried many tools around the house including: screwdrivers, knife ends, shoes, etc. although i havent invested in a real bump tool like the tomahawk. i've already bent two WR5 keys and now i'm planning on ordering another from BK.us as well as the tool. i just had some questions though...

the angle of attack:
it is kind of hard to tell in the videos, but do you try to hit the key right on top, or do you hit it at an angle so that it helps turn the key?
could someone define light pressure? it's hard for non-lock pickers to understand how light, lol
also, assuming you are supposed to hit the key at top-dead-center, why hasnt someone come up with a little piece of plastic that fits over the key so that you are less likely to miss?

sorry if i sound like an ass, i'm no good with words :'(

in my particular case...i've got two deadbolts that take a WR5 key. I think my problem is the key is SOOO thin when cut as bump key. also, i've read that it is harder to bump an installed deadbolt. i've got the following keys, so what you you all recommend i go out and buy to practice?
KW1, KW10, Y1, DE6, SC1, SC4, M1, and some bent WR5s, lol

also, i've only been using the pull out on notch method...didnt want to ruin the keys by filing incorrectly, but i guess it's too late for that.

all help is appreciated

thanks,
jb

#2 digitxm

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Posted 28 November 2006 - 12:11 PM

First of all, go down to your local hardware store (home depot, Lowe's, ace) and copy your keys. There is no need to be ruining good bump-keys. You should use the bump-keys of the originals to bump with and save the originals as a "template". That way, when you do (inevitably) ruin a key, you just go make another copy.

Second, try the minimal movement method. We had a poll, and it is preferred to the pull out. (The only time i use the pull out method is for master locks)

Third, strike right on top. And light is the best description of the tension I can give you. The tension is by far the most difficult thing to do in regards to bumping. You just gotta get the feel for it.

Copy your keys, pick ONE lock to begin on, file the key for that lock down(there are guides in this forum), and practice practice practice. When you can get it, move on to another lock.

#3 Kristic

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Posted 28 November 2006 - 01:33 PM

First of all, go down to your local hardware store (home depot, Lowe's, ace) and copy your keys. There is no need to be ruining good bump-keys. You should use the bump-keys of the originals to bump with and save the originals as a "template". That way, when you do (inevitably) ruin a key, you just go make another copy.

Second, try the minimal movement method. We had a poll, and it is preferred to the pull out. (The only time i use the pull out method is for master locks)

Third, strike right on top. And light is the best description of the tension I can give you. The tension is by far the most difficult thing to do in regards to bumping. You just gotta get the feel for it.

Copy your keys, pick ONE lock to begin on, file the key for that lock down(there are guides in this forum), and practice practice practice. When you can get it, move on to another lock.


He is 100% correct. The number one problem people have is the tension. The tension is VERY VERY light, just barely enough to turn the key ever so slightly

#4 theopratr

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Posted 28 November 2006 - 08:35 PM

He is 100% correct. The number one problem people have is the tension. The tension is VERY VERY light, just barely enough to turn the key ever so slightly


I agree.

Tension is definitely the big issue with most new bumpers.

It helped me greatly to look at the mechanics involved. The bottom and top pins are depressed by a spring from the top, such that when you try to open the lock without the proper key inserted, the top pins bind between the cylinder and the body of the lock.

Bumping, as I'm sure you've read, uses the cut down key to transfer the energy up through the pins, throwing up the top pins and thus eliminating that binding issue, allowing the lock to open, as there is nothing at the line between the plug and the body.

The tension problem can then be addressed by thinking about whether the pins can move with the tension you're applying. Most locks aren't precision instruments, so that there is some give when you try to turn the cylinder. This makes it so the holes in the cylinder and the body of the lock don't quite match up. This is great for lock-picking, as this allows individual top pins to be caught above the shear line while the bottoms pins float about in the key-way. For the purpose of bumping, however, this prevents the pins from popping above the shear line. (One of a few reasons why bumping actually works better and is easier on some of the higher precision security locks!) As a result, you want only enough tension such that the cylinder will rotate when the tops pins have cleared the shear line, but not enough such that you will prevent the top pins from bouncing up in the first place.

Timing and tension. If in doubt, start much lighter than you feel would work and then apply more until you find it. Working your way down is a lot harder, because the tension is much lighter than you would expect.

#5 Journer

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 12:11 AM

cool, thanks for the info...some more questions though, hehe, sorry...

by top of the key, what exactly do you mean, lol it sounds stupid i know but the 'top' changes as u move the key...

so..by top do you mean, the top part where the hole is to put a ring around the key...OR...the top when it is inserted into the locik, which would actually be one of the sides...

#6 BLK

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 05:32 AM

cool, thanks for the info...some more questions though, hehe, sorry...

by top of the key, what exactly do you mean, lol it sounds stupid i know but the 'top' changes as u move the key...

so..by top do you mean, the top part where the hole is to put a ring around the key...OR...the top when it is inserted into the locik, which would actually be one of the sides...


Read this: http://people.csail....ITLockGuide.pdf It is a very informative explanation of how a pin tumbler lock works. It explains what top pins are. It even has pictures.
Bump it to the next level.

#7 chriszf13

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 11:12 AM

Hi,

I'm going to tag along on this discussion. Also a newbie, also completely unable to open any locks. So far, I've only really tried on a master lock padlock, and found myself completely incapable of bumping it. I made copies, filed them down even, etc. So, a couple of questions.

What's the proper technique for opening the master lock? I've noticed people mention they use the pull out method, and sometimes that they use more tension, so... is there a definitive guideline for that?

Also, can someone explain exactly what the minimum movement method is? I know it involves filing the keys, but I don't think I've actually seen anyone say what to do. Do you just shove the key all the way in and then hit it while turning?

Then, that brings me to my last question: how do you know when you've filed away enough material? The bumping guide from toool says the key should pop back out just a little bit when it's correct. Well, I filed away a fair chunk of the key, but it still just goes all the way in to the shoulder; it doesn't spring back.

So. Any help, please? I'm feeling pretty retarded at the moment.

#8 BLK

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Posted 29 November 2006 - 11:41 AM

You might want to search the FAQ section before asking a lot of questions.
Bump it to the next level.

#9 Tim

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 07:14 AM

Some of here already suggested lots of things and they are correct that few thing are always important here. Good filed key, knowledge of the key-way, light tension while hitting with hammer.