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OFFICIAL THREAD: can't get bump keys to work


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#101 barry 1943

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Posted 02 April 2007 - 01:56 PM

Theopratr
You have been a big help. You should write the book "Bumping For Dummys". LOL I shall keep trying. I am sure you will hear from me again. I just spent another unsuccessful 30 minutes trying again.
Thanks alot for the quick response.
Barry

#102 barry 1943

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 09:24 AM

Ok I am still trying and I bought a hammer that should be here today or tomorrow. I have 3 keys that fit the lock. Should it make any difference which one should work? one is the long brass looking one and the other two are just keys to me. I have been trying to of them for over a week with no success. Any help would be appreciated.:smile:
Barry

#103 theopratr

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 09:36 AM

Chances are that you're working with a Kwikset lock, using the KW10 (the longer one) and also the KW1 and DE6.

Technically, it should make no difference which one you use. I routinely use the DE6 to open Kwikset locks. However, if your lock is a six pin Kwikset, then only the longer key (KW10) will work, as both of your other keys are five pins long.

#104 barry 1943

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 09:39 AM

Thoper
Thank you for the quick response (do you live on this thing LOL) you are always a help. The lock does not say kiwiset and I threw the package away but you still answered my qauestion. Thanks again you are a real champ.:smile:
Barry

#105 theopratr

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 09:41 AM

Not a problem, sir.

Keep in mind that for your Kwiksets, you only need a tad bit of tension, and a quick flick of the wrist. Keep practicing, and it will let you in. :)

#106 barry 1943

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 09:43 AM

Thoper
The two keys (5 pin) are the AR1 and the DE6 that fit but your information still applies that it shouldn;t matter which one and I should try the 6 pin. Thanks again.
Barry

#107 theopratr

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 09:58 AM

You learn something new every day... I never checked the compatability of the AR1 to the KW1 keyway. When you mentioned that it fit, I ran downstairs and tried it... I can't get a bump off of one, and the AR1 only fits into two of six Kwikset cylinders I have sitting around, so it's a really narrow fit.

In any case, check through your keys to see if you have a regular old KW1. And also, keep trying on that KW10, because that should certainly work too.

#108 barry 1943

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 10:40 AM

:eek: Thanks thoper
Your always there to help.
Barry

#109 theopratr

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 10:42 AM

Looking carefully, I bet it could be made to work... you'd probably just need to widen the grooves on the AR1, and perhaps make them a little bit deeper... it could be done!

#110 sniper101

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 10:50 AM

Something that gave me the hope the be able to bump any lock was using the kw10, on a 5 pin kwikset/weiser. I was trying to bump 2 seperate locks, in the begginning an di got frustrated and started going faster, and by mistake i pulled it out 2 pins, and the lock popped open. So you should try pulilng out 2 clicks, as it could help you. And once i got the hang of that, I used my same technique, and was able to bump it with just the regular 5 pin key.

#111 barry 1943

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Posted 04 April 2007 - 11:28 AM

Thanks fellows I can use all the help I can get I am printing all this out so I can try everything. (just call me Mr. frustration) I'll get it I never give up (YET) LOL.
Barry

#112 JshLnsctt

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 03:12 PM

I just recieved my Kwikset 1 and 10 keys from bumpkey.us, but I can't seem to get them to work. I have picked locked before, so I have an idea of how much force to use. I have not modified the keys in anyway since I have recieved them. Has anyone got any suggestions as what to try. What is the best tool that I would have available to use, and how hard should I hit the key. Also, should I turn the knob or not even touch it? Thanks Alot

#113 sniper101

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Posted 06 April 2007 - 03:29 PM

When you are bumping the hardest thing is the tension you use. With kwiksets you need an extremely little amount of tension, literally the weight of a feather. Just let your finger barely touch the key. If your keys are not modified, first get copies, and then you can try bumping with the pull out method. This means you just pull out the key 1 or maybe 2 pins. Usually 1 pin, if you are bumping a 5 pin lock with a 5 pin key, or a 6 pin lock with a 6 pin key. If you are bumping a 5 pin lock with a 6 pin key, then I find it easier to pull it out 2 clicks or pins. For the objects that are suitable to smacking the key with, i find using the rubber handle of my file very good. If you are just new and think you need some extra help in the proper force required to hit with, i reccommend getting a bump hammer. Other objects you can find in your house can also be used, such as screwdrivers, wooden spoons, smaller hammers etc..

#114 barry 1943

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 12:57 PM

Which Key? asks the frustratedman.
The following keys fit in my pactice lock:
AR4
KW1
AR1
DE6
KW10 (kind of)
WK2
Now how do I tell which is the correct key to practice with or does it matter because they all fit. Should they all work?
I am getting no where after I got all the keys and a Bump hammer etc..
I have a dead bolt and a door handle/lock mounted on a board (like at the lock smith shop) with a stand. Nothing works feather touch hard or soft hit. Do I just need to keep practicing to get to Carnigy Hall? Should I keep changing keys? Or should I say I am too DUMB and give up?

H E L P :furious3: :fighting: :confused: :brickwall:
Barry

#115 sniper101

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 03:23 PM

Usually if the key fits into the lock you should be able to bump that lock. Try using the same key, and choose one that goes in and out the smoothest. Just keep trying because everyone that once started out has felt like this. Before I was able to bump a lock, i didn't believe it was true, but something made me keep trying, and I eventually got it. Once you get it, it will come easy as like a second nature.

#116 Joe42

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 04:18 PM

Since I got a practice lock, I've become alot more successful with bumping. I'd really like to get some locks for the other keys I have as I'm getting tired of the KW1. However, I've found that now that I have the feather touch, most of the time I'm putting too little pressure on the key and missing good bumps as a result. It truly is a fine line between too much and too little.

#117 theopratr

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 09:39 PM

Which Key? asks the frustratedman.
The following keys fit in my pactice lock:
AR4
KW1
AR1
DE6
KW10 (kind of)
WK2
Now how do I tell which is the correct key to practice with or does it matter because they all fit. Should they all work?
I am getting no where after I got all the keys and a Bump hammer etc..
I have a dead bolt and a door handle/lock mounted on a board (like at the lock smith shop) with a stand. Nothing works feather touch hard or soft hit. Do I just need to keep practicing to get to Carnigy Hall? Should I keep changing keys? Or should I say I am too DUMB and give up?

H E L P :furious3: :fighting: :confused: :brickwall:


KW1 and KW10 are the same keyway, the DE6 fits a Kwikset, AR1 and AR4 are the same, and sometimes fit Kwikset keyways, and the WK2 also fits a Kwikset.

This leads me to believe that, given the circumstances, you're working with a Kwikset lock, or a clone.

Thus, the KW1 and KW10 will definitely work. Try these extensively before anything else. The DE6 will also work. The AR1 and AR4 probably won't work... the spacing is the same, but the depths are not. The WK2 will not work, as it's cut far too low.

So... KW1 it until you can't take it anymore, experiment widely with tension, impact force, etc. If possible, post pictures of your keys and the locks that you're using. PM me if you need any specific help.

#118 barry 1943

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 07:15 AM

Theopr
Thanks again you have simplified it for me much. It must be a clone because it is not a Kwikset. At least you have me down to not having to keep changing keys. You are always such a big help. Thanks buddy(again & again)
Barry

#119 barry 1943

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 11:35 AM

O.K. guys here is a laugh for you. I just went out and bought a padlock. I took the depth key for it and hit it once and it opened. I tried it a second time and it opened. Now about 100 times again I have tried and it won't open. I can't win. Looks like I got the touch and lost it. I will keep grinding at it and hope to hit the combo again and when I can do it repeadly I will go back to my test dead bolt. Will keep you informed on the next chapter of this on-going saga in the event you have any suggestions. Just call me Mr. frustration LOL.
Stay tuned for the next chapter in The Old Man and His Locks (LOL)
Barry

#120 theopratr

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Posted 10 April 2007 - 12:54 PM

Glad I could help with your Kwikset situation... there are literally dozens of clones, mostly made in China, and are commonly distributed at leading US retailers under names such as Defiant, MAG, etc. right next to the real "Kwikset High Security" products. The clones are cheaper and have nasty low tolerances in their construction. As is common in bumping, the low quality locks can actually be more difficult to open than top grade material, as the tight tolerances lead to smooth operation... and smooth bumping!

As for your padlock, glad you saw some success... what's important to remember is that bump keys are blunt force devices. Each time you bump a lock, be it a successful or unsuccessful bump, the pins impact each of the faces of the peaks on your key... and after some amount of time, the pins will eat away at the metal until the key is not operational any more. This is paticularly true, I find, in keys which require steeper peaks... my Yale keys commonly work for between 75 and 125 bumps, and then need to have their peaks refinished with a few strokes of a flat file to restore their smooth edges. Keys with larger peaks and steeper peaks seem to be more prone to this problem.

I find it possible that your padlock key was in working but marginal shape in the first place, and after your first two bumps, perhaps the metal deformed just enough to make your key unworkable. This COULD indicate that you're using slightly excessive force (!)... you're learning, of course, so don't take this as gospel; there are a slew of other things that could have changed. Once again, if you can get your hands on a digital camera, it would simplify your life greatly as we'd be able to see what was happening.

Was the padlock key a copy of a bump key that you bought? If so, try to file the now non-working copy as I suggested, if that seems suspect. Otherwise, try pulling the key out two clicks instead of just one... I do this for about half of padlocks, and it seems to increase the success rate exponentially. The padlocks really do require a little more oompf to get them open, but in a relative sense... you can't force these things. :)

Best of bumping!