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Keys just don't work


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#1 Erwin

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 08:06 PM

Got the complete set of bumpkeys last week from Bumpkey.US. I've read every message in the forums and tried every suggestion offered to no avail.
There seems to be a very large number of proud owners of bumpkeys that have had zero success. Kwiksets are so easy to pick but absolutely no success with a bumpkey. How many others feel the same?

#2 Kristic

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 08:10 PM

I have had no problem whatsoever when it comes to bumpkeys.

Its just like lockpicking. Once you get it, you get it. There is not other way to describe it other than it comes with time.

Did you file down your keys?

#3 Erwin

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 08:42 PM

Yes, I've filed the keys, compared mine with all the pictures of perfect bumpkeys in the forum. Are your keys form Bumpkey.Us or did you make your own?

#4 digitxm

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 09:48 AM

Most people here do both. It is good (I think) to at least try to make your own. I thought it helped me understand more how it works. Buying from bumpkey.us is nice though because all of the keys are cut to factory specs, not copied. I have done both. If you have truly read through all the suggestions on the forum, just keep at it. Once you get the feel for it, it becomes easier and easier.

If you arn't having any success with your homemade keys, then i would recommend trying bumpkey.us. But if the problem isn't with the keys, having factory cut keys wont help you.

Practice practice practice

#5 Kristic

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 12:04 PM

Yes, I've filed the keys, compared mine with all the pictures of perfect bumpkeys in the forum. Are your keys form Bumpkey.Us or did you make your own?


I use the keys found at bumpkey.us After practice, I havent had a problem

#6 xesvuli420

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 12:58 AM

I have seen every video i can think of on YOUTUBE, and GOOGLE VIDEOS, not to mention I've read about every post on here, from searching the word "help" to scrolling down page by page reading every thread that even seemed to be someone asking for somekind of help (and the ones in between that look interesting) I CAN NOT GET THESE KEYS TO WORK WHATSOEVER...with the exception of the DE6. this is the key that re assures me that i am doing something right. 97% of the time it unlocks my door. I have tried EVERY bit of advice on these keys, yes including the filing I have personally tried the kwicksets, schlages, master, yale, and de6. I have tried each key AT LEAST 150 times with tension varying from barely touching the key to pushing the key like it kicked my dog! i even tried aids like paperclips "just incase" when i would slightly hold the key and hit it I would momentarily loose tension. I have tried EVERYTHING in my house with a flat surface as a "whacker" things like hammer butts, hammer heads, shoes, other padlocks, adjustable wrenches, wooden spoons, screwdrivers (the best thing to use with the de6 lock), and even my boston terrier one time. She didnt think it would work, but i had to try...right?!?!? lol I really thought buying my keys would be a great thing but obviously i made a mistake. I noticed that on a picture in an earlier post had a hand made key next to a purchased key, and they were different. I wonder if the bigger points on the handmade made the key work better. IDK, all I know is i am frustrated to the point of my thumb is purple from trying over and over and over. Please dont give me any "just keep at it" babble...an 8 YEAR OLD GIRL did it with NO problem, why cant I get it just once after hundreds of times. Im starting to wonder if this many people can actually be retarded in the bump key world or is something up with these keys. Either way 33$ for one working key is too much to pay! I knew i should have tried a smaller set instead of just trusting these keys, If anyone has any ideas that hasnt been mentioned 1000 times already (trust me, ive seen, and tried it already) then please inform me, maybe all bumping has to be done on wednesday, IDK, but I sure cant get it. Thanks -Shane

#7 theopratr

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Posted 30 December 2006 - 02:28 AM

To the newcomers on the forum: Keep at it. The media wants you to believe an eight year old girl can do it. This does not mean she can do it to any lock, with just any key, and without prior coaching and practice. Having the child bump the lock sells many high security locks to every moron that believes that it's completely unscripted and genuine.

Many of the other videos are connected with sites where people sell you bump keys. They make it look fantastically easy. "Works on every lock!"

Then there's your position. Purple thumbs, no finger nails and out thirty bucks and hours and hours of time, without an ounce of success. The truth lies somewhere in between. If you give an eight year old a bump key and a lock, they'll probably swallow the damn key and die. The lock will not open as a result. Bumping will open the vast majority of locks, with a decent amount of time, research and PRACTICE spent on technique. I didn't believe it worked myself until... it worked.

First course of action: read the forums until you're blue. Many troubleshooting sessions have been carried out with people who were in the exact same position as you are now. Try to learn from their experience, and see what helped them. The forums have great explanations for the best technique, and a good deal of technical data as well. The tension is variable between locks, but never ridiculously more than you would use to turn the actual key for whatever lock you're trying to bump. And the striking device should have the weight and length of a small to medium screwdriver, as it's long enough to get moving fast enough to give the proper impulse without being too heavy.

Next, post pictures of your keys, if not purchased at bumpkey.us. If you bought them here, they work. The ones I bought work just the same as the ones that I made. The shape of the grooves in the key are irrelevant, as in both cases the pin is at rest and not being pushed into the shell at all. That is to say, the places where the pins rest lie below the lowest cut for that style of key. The only thing I could think of could be of any assistance with the actual keys would be to take a .5mm square file and lower those a bit. As long as you don't touch the peaks on the key, you won't damage it. And if you're really concerned about how much you paid for the keys, protect your investment by getting them copied beforehand.

Find more locks. Maybe even buy a few. I have made dozens of different functional bump keys from manufacturer specifications of depths and spacing, and have driven myself up the wall trying to figure out why some keys didn't work. In time, the answer was simple. Some specific locks of the same brand are easier to bump than others. Master keyed systems, although easier to pick, may be harder to bump. Older locks can corrode and wear down inside, making them difficult to cycle. Sometimes your shiny new bump key fits, and absolutely kill yourself trying to get the thing to work. After three days of not eating or drinking, you expire in your room and sustain brain damage. If you had only checked to see that the Kwikset lock was a six pin set up and your bump key was a KW-1 five pin...

You get the idea. Read up on lock picking as well, it will give you some insight into what the hell is actually happening when you go kicking your key into the lock.

Happy bumping!

P.S. If you're looking for easy success, try the Kwikset first. Buy a cheap deadbolt for ten bucks at the hardware store to get the hang of it. The Master padlocks, etc. can be a pain in the ass before you really know what you're doing.

P.P.S. Seriously. Read the forums. I doubt you read all 1700+ posts in their entirety and visited all the informational sites to which they linked. Read, experiment, and feel free to post any additional questions you have.

#8 Keyless82

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Posted 31 December 2006 - 09:32 PM

I have seen every video i can think of on YOUTUBE, and GOOGLE VIDEOS, not to mention I've read about every post on here, from searching the word "help" to scrolling down page by page reading every thread that even seemed to be someone asking for somekind of help (and the ones in between that look interesting) I CAN NOT GET THESE KEYS TO WORK WHATSOEVER...with the exception of the DE6. this is the key that re assures me that i am doing something right. 97% of the time it unlocks my door. I have tried EVERY bit of advice on these keys, yes including the filing I have personally tried the kwicksets, schlages, master, yale, and de6. I have tried each key AT LEAST 150 times with tension varying from barely touching the key to pushing the key like it kicked my dog! i even tried aids like paperclips "just incase" when i would slightly hold the key and hit it I would momentarily loose tension. I have tried EVERYTHING in my house with a flat surface as a "whacker" things like hammer butts, hammer heads, shoes, other padlocks, adjustable wrenches, wooden spoons, screwdrivers (the best thing to use with the de6 lock), and even my boston terrier one time. She didnt think it would work, but i had to try...right?!?!? lol I really thought buying my keys would be a great thing but obviously i made a mistake. I noticed that on a picture in an earlier post had a hand made key next to a purchased key, and they were different. I wonder if the bigger points on the handmade made the key work better. IDK, all I know is i am frustrated to the point of my thumb is purple from trying over and over and over. Please dont give me any "just keep at it" babble...an 8 YEAR OLD GIRL did it with NO problem, why cant I get it just once after hundreds of times. Im starting to wonder if this many people can actually be retarded in the bump key world or is something up with these keys. Either way 33$ for one working key is too much to pay! I knew i should have tried a smaller set instead of just trusting these keys, If anyone has any ideas that hasnt been mentioned 1000 times already (trust me, ive seen, and tried it already) then please inform me, maybe all bumping has to be done on wednesday, IDK, but I sure cant get it. Thanks -Shane


did i write this?

#9 Master Cutter

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 11:03 AM

As a bump-key vendor myself, I can sympathise with bumpkey US. There's really a knack to bumping, a 'feel' if you like, when you've got it, it's amazing, when you haven't you think it's a scam. Persevere. There are more techniques (there's always more. Do you know how to 'swing and clip'? I use this method a lot as itr does the keys/lock less (virtually zero!) damage and works a treat. Using 'swing and chip' allows you to come at the lock from various angles, making use of both horiozontal and vertical 'shift' movement of the key in the lock. Here's a couple of pics to illustrate (ie confuse) the issue. Actually, here's the whole damn message. Hope it helps
The standard procedure for hitting a bump key is to come at the back iof it with a little tap. Forum regulars will know we have changed all that and 'planish' the key (come at an angle and 'clip' the key) as shown below. The diagram also shows the traditional technique and how little movement you actually need

Posted Image


Here's another drawing, and an edited copy of a document I made for someone:


Posted Image



Planishing

Do you all know what a planishing hammer is? No/Yes. Right, look it up on Google. Now you know about planishing. It's a method of finishing metal whereby the metal has loads of little flattened circles over it's surface, done well it looks lovely, done bad it looks like its been done bad. Anyway, the planishing hammer hits the metal and then sort of bounces off to the side. This works a treat with bumping, using an ‘arc-swing’. I'm having absolutely amazing results doing this with my LOXWAT, tapping the key gently and then letting the swat continue off.


People always ask how hard to hit a bump key. You're gonna be surprised, I went through 15 locks and bumped them all - using the planish thing - but with a tap about as heavy as gravity of the LOXWAT moving an few inches down, really, try it, put a little pressure on the key and just tickle it (with whatever you’re using). It works on a lot of locks. Seriously just the littlest tap, not even enough to wake a dog if tapped on his snout



There's a lot of discussion about the shoulders of bump keys. As you might have noticed We lose the shoulder altogether (this helps eliminate tell-tale 'bump=bump', that little dent above the lock entrance) as well as give the key a little bit of horizontal movement, which can mean the difference between the lock popping open or not. It's these variations of movement and angle that I exploit with the technique

The bump-hammer swings at the key in an arc, just clipping the key at one of three places, the top third, the middle and the bottom third (see pics below) and then continues on through the arc shape, barely clipping it. Ask yourself - "How much energy does it take to move a few mm of brass pin?". Each angle of approach causes the key to perform a different little dance in the lock, variations are what you want when what you're doing isn't working.


More advanced is to use one of the three hitting-points I've identified (you can keep splitting these points, I have a lock that will ONLY go if I 'clip' it on the bottom half of the top third, the second sixth down as it were) and then vary the amount of 'edge' you give it. I'd say you have about a 90 degree range from where to strike. It's basically the horizontal range from which you can strike your key. Sometimes, coming from a quite obtuse angle, the bump-hammer actually performs the task of turning the key too. Some locks I can bump like this almost every time, with no separate pressure applied. Of course you can go wider, all I'm trying to illustrate is the various angles available both horizontally and vertically and the product of those axis that you can strike the key from. For instance, you might have success coming at a lock from 6 inches away (back) from the lock, six inches above it, and four inches away from it (away from you). Mime those measurements/movements now and you'll see what I mean. Coming at the key in an arc opens up all these and more possibilities..


show the most successful technique I know for the standard 'horizontal back-hitting' where you come straight at the key. Think back to Newton’s Cradle (as popularised by the desk-top toy of swinging ball-bearings) and the movement of the ball bearing as it hits the other, the energy is immediately transmitted to the next ball-bearing, it's the same in pool, hit the ball in the middle and it stuns still on impact with the other ball. Your bump-hammer should do the same. You don't want to 'push' the key at all. To remedy this, I stop the swing of my arm/hand and let the bump hammer continue the last few inches, loose in my hand (by loosening my grip at the last second) the hammer continues on, the metal flexing slightly but most of the movement coming from my loosening grip – (you can do this with a screwdriver, bread knife etc but it ain’t as easy). When it hits it, it stops dead and there's absolutely NO 'push'. Don't forget, you're only trying to move a little bit of brass a few mm, just like the planishing technique as well, you barely need to clip it.The LOXWAT has been specifically designed for this technique whilst easily allowing for the traditional 'straight at the key' technique. Once you get the hang of this technique and the implications it has for bumping, you'll realise the importance of such a development


#10 BLK

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Posted 02 January 2007 - 12:56 PM

I'll bet it is NOT the keys.
Bump it to the next level.

#11 linuxphreak

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Posted 24 February 2007 - 04:22 PM

I ordered a set of 5 bumpkeys plus some single keys of other individuals (the 11 key set was backordered) I got mine about 2 days ago & tried for about 10 minutes per day on a weiser deadbolt on my house with no success...in reading up on other threads I discovered I was using too much tension & not enough inertia "whack" . I used minimal tension thumb & forefinger of my left hand (forming an "OK" sort of hand sign-)-pullout method on unmodified keys- and instead of a rubber screwdriver handle I used the handle of an aluminum breadknife and came in from slightly underneath with an upward smack--using this technique the weiser deadbolt was bumped in 2 tries .
Like a lot of others here I suspected that I got bad keys that I was going to have to hack away at ..etc etc----just keep trying and change your strategy and peripheral tools to find what works for you

#12 C0wT1pp3r

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Posted 24 February 2007 - 05:07 PM

it's probably the force you're using to bump with

#13 WeedIsMyCheat

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 03:03 PM

Thanks Allot Master Cutter I registed to thank you your tips really helped me

#14 bumber

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 07:44 PM

also when you you BUMP the key not hit ot tap you might be hittin it to hard if you hear smack or clack its to hard all i hear is tit, boom its open with a twizt!! B U T FULL! hope this helped

#15 ChicagoLocks

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Posted 11 March 2011 - 03:26 AM

As for bumpkeys I don't have any problem up till now. you may file it properly and with more practice it will be easier to work with them.
Sandy